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	<title>Comments on: Language extinction ain&#8217;t no big thing?</title>
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	<link>http://neuroanthropology.net/2010/07/25/language-extinction-aint-no-big-thing/</link>
	<description>For a greater understanding of the encultured brain and body...</description>
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		<title>By: Cultural Diversity, Economic Development and Societal Instability &#124; Replicated Typo</title>
		<link>http://neuroanthropology.net/2010/07/25/language-extinction-aint-no-big-thing/#comment-23453</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cultural Diversity, Economic Development and Societal Instability &#124; Replicated Typo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Nov 2011 08:20:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neuroanthropology.net/?p=5348#comment-23453</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] then, the debate has become a lot more heated, with Neuroanthropology wading in against Razib, which, in the second-half of the post at least, is worth reading just to get the general flavour [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] then, the debate has become a lot more heated, with Neuroanthropology wading in against Razib, which, in the second-half of the post at least, is worth reading just to get the general flavour [...]</p>
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		<title>By: ‘The last free people on the planet’ &#124; Neuroanthropology</title>
		<link>http://neuroanthropology.net/2010/07/25/language-extinction-aint-no-big-thing/#comment-17011</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[‘The last free people on the planet’ &#124; Neuroanthropology]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Feb 2011 12:35:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neuroanthropology.net/?p=5348#comment-17011</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] or commentators seem to think that cultural extinction is natural and inevitable (for example, see Language extinction ain’t no big thing?).  In Peru we see the ugly reality of Indigenous genocide, the blood-soaked acts behind the [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] or commentators seem to think that cultural extinction is natural and inevitable (for example, see Language extinction ain’t no big thing?).  In Peru we see the ugly reality of Indigenous genocide, the blood-soaked acts behind the [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: &#8220;The&#8221; unbearable &#8220;whiteness&#8221; of &#8220;science&#8221; &#124; Gene Expression &#124; Discover Magazine</title>
		<link>http://neuroanthropology.net/2010/07/25/language-extinction-aint-no-big-thing/#comment-16681</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[&#8220;The&#8221; unbearable &#8220;whiteness&#8221; of &#8220;science&#8221; &#124; Gene Expression &#124; Discover Magazine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Dec 2010 10:00:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neuroanthropology.net/?p=5348#comment-16681</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] summer Greg Downey blew a gasket when I stated &#8220;I have as much respect for most American cultural anthropology [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] summer Greg Downey blew a gasket when I stated &#8220;I have as much respect for most American cultural anthropology [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Linguist Jessie Little Doe Baird &#8211; 2010 MacArthur Fellow! &#124; Neuroanthropology</title>
		<link>http://neuroanthropology.net/2010/07/25/language-extinction-aint-no-big-thing/#comment-15847</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Linguist Jessie Little Doe Baird &#8211; 2010 MacArthur Fellow! &#124; Neuroanthropology]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Sep 2010 00:59:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neuroanthropology.net/?p=5348#comment-15847</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] ‘Little Doe’ Baird is especially interesting to me because I’ve been involved in a little online dustup with Razib Khan, weblog writer for Gene Expression (Discover and independent) over the issue of indigenous [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ‘Little Doe’ Baird is especially interesting to me because I’ve been involved in a little online dustup with Razib Khan, weblog writer for Gene Expression (Discover and independent) over the issue of indigenous [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Social Darwinist and the Priests &#124; Gene Expression &#124; Discover Magazine</title>
		<link>http://neuroanthropology.net/2010/07/25/language-extinction-aint-no-big-thing/#comment-15802</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Social Darwinist and the Priests &#124; Gene Expression &#124; Discover Magazine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Sep 2010 01:58:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neuroanthropology.net/?p=5348#comment-15802</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] go so far as to transgress into the realm of Godwin&#8217;s Law. One of the things that set Greg Downey off about the aspersions I cast toward linguistic anthropology in general was that I stated that [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] go so far as to transgress into the realm of Godwin&#8217;s Law. One of the things that set Greg Downey off about the aspersions I cast toward linguistic anthropology in general was that I stated that [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The new linguistic relativism: Guy Deutscher in the NYTimes &#171; Neuroanthropology</title>
		<link>http://neuroanthropology.net/2010/07/25/language-extinction-aint-no-big-thing/#comment-15340</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The new linguistic relativism: Guy Deutscher in the NYTimes &#171; Neuroanthropology]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Aug 2010 05:16:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neuroanthropology.net/?p=5348#comment-15340</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] directions, like the Australian aboriginal tongue, Guugu Yimithirr, from north Queensland (yet another reason not to be blasé about language extinction). In Guugu Yimithirr, people can only speak with reference to cardinal directions – north, south, [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] directions, like the Australian aboriginal tongue, Guugu Yimithirr, from north Queensland (yet another reason not to be blasé about language extinction). In Guugu Yimithirr, people can only speak with reference to cardinal directions – north, south, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Diversions</title>
		<link>http://neuroanthropology.net/2010/07/25/language-extinction-aint-no-big-thing/#comment-15073</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Diversions]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Aug 2010 05:00:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neuroanthropology.net/?p=5348#comment-15073</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] You may have noticed that the Discover science blog had an article by Razib Khan that as “language diversity correlates with poverty”, supporting endangered languages is, in fact detrimental. This argument is wrong and plain stupid for so many reasons, all of which are articulately detailed in Greg Downey’s rebuttal on Neuroanthropology.net. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] You may have noticed that the Discover science blog had an article by Razib Khan that as “language diversity correlates with poverty”, supporting endangered languages is, in fact detrimental. This argument is wrong and plain stupid for so many reasons, all of which are articulately detailed in Greg Downey’s rebuttal on Neuroanthropology.net. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: brtkrbzhnv</title>
		<link>http://neuroanthropology.net/2010/07/25/language-extinction-aint-no-big-thing/#comment-14290</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[brtkrbzhnv]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Aug 2010 08:30:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neuroanthropology.net/?p=5348#comment-14290</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Excluding the micronations, 10/11 in your list of rich countries have a majority language – 6/14 in your list of poor countries; the difference is even greater for supermajorities. I don&#039;t think the way you&#039;re measuring diversity makes much sense.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excluding the micronations, 10/11 in your list of rich countries have a majority language – 6/14 in your list of poor countries; the difference is even greater for supermajorities. I don&#8217;t think the way you&#8217;re measuring diversity makes much sense.</p>
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		<title>By: Linguistic Anthropology Roundup #12 &#8211; Society for Linguistic Anthropology</title>
		<link>http://neuroanthropology.net/2010/07/25/language-extinction-aint-no-big-thing/#comment-14060</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Linguistic Anthropology Roundup #12 &#8211; Society for Linguistic Anthropology]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Aug 2010 17:13:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neuroanthropology.net/?p=5348#comment-14060</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Language extinction ain’t no big thing? « Neuroanthropology. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Language extinction ain’t no big thing? « Neuroanthropology. [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Zora</title>
		<link>http://neuroanthropology.net/2010/07/25/language-extinction-aint-no-big-thing/#comment-13505</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zora]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Aug 2010 03:55:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neuroanthropology.net/?p=5348#comment-13505</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is probably too long after the first post to attract anyone&#039;s consideration, but ... I&#039;ve been thinking about communication barriers and power. 

It takes WORK to overcome the communications barriers between languages: either individual language learning, or the use of translators and interpreters. 

Individual language learning can be something that you yourself do (learning a second or third language in order to be able to communicate with people outside your native language community) or something that other people do to accommodate you. Whoever learns a second language, it&#039;s work. An investment of time and energy. 

Ditto employing a translator or interpreter. The translator/interpreter puts in the effort to learn another language and then uses that ability for the benefit of friends and relatives, or for pay. If paid, the translator/interpreter gets some return on the work of learning the language, and someone else has to foot the cost of that work.

I think that until quite recently, it was generally the people with power (either an elite with political power, or the power of the majority) who forced the powerless to learn another language, or to pay for an interpreter. This imposed a continuing cost on the powerless. Under these circumstances, it is rational for the powerless to adopt the language of the empowered. It isn&#039;t necessary to forbid the speaking of the smaller languages in order to slowly kill them; it&#039;s only necessary to force the speakers of those languages to bear all the costs of crossing communication barriers. 

In the last fifty years, the elites and the majorities of the developed countries have been shamed, even pushed, into taking on more of the burden of language accommodation. In large part, this has meant money poured into developing multi-lingual publications and hiring interpreters. (Social welfare agencies here in Honolulu have to present materials in Japanese, Korean, Mandarin, Cantonese, Vietnamese, Tongan, Samoan, and Marshallese -- or perhaps even more languages; I didn&#039;t take careful note). I suspect that you&#039;re just not going to see this degree of consideration for minorities in poorer countries. The governments simply can&#039;t afford all the translation and interpretation required. 

That&#039;s why Greg&#039;s analysis of language diversity versus wealth is misleading. That conflates diversity in poor countries (largely rural populations, preservation of smaller languages thanks to isolation and neglect) and diversity in rich countries (governments spend money to preserve minority languages). 

Note that at a certain point you&#039;re going to have to start asking hard questions about how many language speakers are necessary before you start hiring translators and interpreters. My condo association sends out notices in English, Mandarin, Korean, and Japanese. My next door neighbors, a Vietnamese-Mexican couple, are left out. Should we hire an interpreter when there&#039;s only one owner who speaks that language? I don&#039;t think so. Governments have to make those cost-benefit analyses, and will end up ruling against extreme minorities. Is that oppression? Again, I don&#039;t think so. 

All this would change if we had good computer translation, so that there were no language barriers at all. We&#039;re not there yet. 

Someone, somewhere, must have said all of this already. I can&#039;t find any references. I would appreciate any comments pointing me to more nuanced considerations of the previous basic points. That is, if anyone is still reading this thread :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is probably too long after the first post to attract anyone&#8217;s consideration, but &#8230; I&#8217;ve been thinking about communication barriers and power. </p>
<p>It takes WORK to overcome the communications barriers between languages: either individual language learning, or the use of translators and interpreters. </p>
<p>Individual language learning can be something that you yourself do (learning a second or third language in order to be able to communicate with people outside your native language community) or something that other people do to accommodate you. Whoever learns a second language, it&#8217;s work. An investment of time and energy. </p>
<p>Ditto employing a translator or interpreter. The translator/interpreter puts in the effort to learn another language and then uses that ability for the benefit of friends and relatives, or for pay. If paid, the translator/interpreter gets some return on the work of learning the language, and someone else has to foot the cost of that work.</p>
<p>I think that until quite recently, it was generally the people with power (either an elite with political power, or the power of the majority) who forced the powerless to learn another language, or to pay for an interpreter. This imposed a continuing cost on the powerless. Under these circumstances, it is rational for the powerless to adopt the language of the empowered. It isn&#8217;t necessary to forbid the speaking of the smaller languages in order to slowly kill them; it&#8217;s only necessary to force the speakers of those languages to bear all the costs of crossing communication barriers. </p>
<p>In the last fifty years, the elites and the majorities of the developed countries have been shamed, even pushed, into taking on more of the burden of language accommodation. In large part, this has meant money poured into developing multi-lingual publications and hiring interpreters. (Social welfare agencies here in Honolulu have to present materials in Japanese, Korean, Mandarin, Cantonese, Vietnamese, Tongan, Samoan, and Marshallese &#8212; or perhaps even more languages; I didn&#8217;t take careful note). I suspect that you&#8217;re just not going to see this degree of consideration for minorities in poorer countries. The governments simply can&#8217;t afford all the translation and interpretation required. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s why Greg&#8217;s analysis of language diversity versus wealth is misleading. That conflates diversity in poor countries (largely rural populations, preservation of smaller languages thanks to isolation and neglect) and diversity in rich countries (governments spend money to preserve minority languages). </p>
<p>Note that at a certain point you&#8217;re going to have to start asking hard questions about how many language speakers are necessary before you start hiring translators and interpreters. My condo association sends out notices in English, Mandarin, Korean, and Japanese. My next door neighbors, a Vietnamese-Mexican couple, are left out. Should we hire an interpreter when there&#8217;s only one owner who speaks that language? I don&#8217;t think so. Governments have to make those cost-benefit analyses, and will end up ruling against extreme minorities. Is that oppression? Again, I don&#8217;t think so. </p>
<p>All this would change if we had good computer translation, so that there were no language barriers at all. We&#8217;re not there yet. </p>
<p>Someone, somewhere, must have said all of this already. I can&#8217;t find any references. I would appreciate any comments pointing me to more nuanced considerations of the previous basic points. That is, if anyone is still reading this thread <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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