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	<title>Comments on: Attraction</title>
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	<description>For a greater understanding of the encultured brain and body...</description>
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		<title>By: GENERAL, KNOWLEDGE, buckles, cross sectional area &#124; nuclearpowerstations.net</title>
		<link>http://neuroanthropology.net/2010/05/12/attraction/#comment-17106</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[GENERAL, KNOWLEDGE, buckles, cross sectional area &#124; nuclearpowerstations.net]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Feb 2011 19:25:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neuroanthropology.net/?p=5207#comment-17106</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] VSAT stands for Very Small Aperture Terminal. VSAT  For more on this read: http://guitarchitecture.org/2011/02/04/the-american-idol-litmus-test/   Additionally you can check out this related post: http://jphinano.wordpress.com/2011/02/04/why-is-everyone-raving-about-kimi-ni-todoke/   A great related post about this: http://neuroanthropology.net/2010/05/12/attraction/ [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] VSAT stands for Very Small Aperture Terminal. VSAT  For more on this read: <a href="http://guitarchitecture.org/2011/02/04/the-american-idol-litmus-test/" rel="nofollow">http://guitarchitecture.org/2011/02/04/the-american-idol-litmus-test/</a>   Additionally you can check out this related post: <a href="http://jphinano.wordpress.com/2011/02/04/why-is-everyone-raving-about-kimi-ni-todoke/" rel="nofollow">http://jphinano.wordpress.com/2011/02/04/why-is-everyone-raving-about-kimi-ni-todoke/</a>   A great related post about this: <a href="http://neuroanthropology.net/2010/05/12/attraction/" rel="nofollow">http://neuroanthropology.net/2010/05/12/attraction/</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: DarkLayers</title>
		<link>http://neuroanthropology.net/2010/05/12/attraction/#comment-12426</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DarkLayers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jun 2010 07:39:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neuroanthropology.net/?p=5207#comment-12426</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I just wanted to mention research has turned against the WHR theory of female attractiveness more broadly. In critiquing a recent book, Ian Penton Voak wrote, newer research shows the extent to which the WHR hypothesis has fallen out of favor. 

Recent studies show other anthropometric characteristics are superior predictors. 

Cornelissen, P.L., Tovee, M.J. and Bateson, M. (2009) Patterns of subcutaneous fat deposition and the relationship between body mass index and waist-to-hip ratio: Implications for models of physical attractiveness. Journal of Theoretical Biology, 256(3), 343-350.

Another study found males don&#039;t gaze at the same regions when they judge WHR as they do overall attractiveness. 

Cornelissen, P.L., Hancock, P.J.B., Kiviniemi, V., George, H.R. and Tovee, M.J. (2009) Patterns of eye-movements when Male and Female observers judge female attractiveness, body fat and waist-to-hip ratio. Evolution and Human Behaviour, 30, 417-428. 

Two recent studies that used video clips of real women as opposed to line drawings found no role for WHR in multiple regressions. 

Smith, K.L., Cornelissen, P.L. &amp; Tovée, M.J. (2007) Colour 3D Bodies and Judgements of Human Female Attractiveness. Evolution and Human Behaviour, 28, 48-54

J RILLING, T KAUFMAN, E SMITH, R PATEL, C WORTHMAN (2009). Abdominal depth and waist circumference as influential determinants of human female attractiveness. Evolution and Human Behavior, 30 (1), 21-31]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just wanted to mention research has turned against the WHR theory of female attractiveness more broadly. In critiquing a recent book, Ian Penton Voak wrote, newer research shows the extent to which the WHR hypothesis has fallen out of favor. </p>
<p>Recent studies show other anthropometric characteristics are superior predictors. </p>
<p>Cornelissen, P.L., Tovee, M.J. and Bateson, M. (2009) Patterns of subcutaneous fat deposition and the relationship between body mass index and waist-to-hip ratio: Implications for models of physical attractiveness. Journal of Theoretical Biology, 256(3), 343-350.</p>
<p>Another study found males don&#8217;t gaze at the same regions when they judge WHR as they do overall attractiveness. </p>
<p>Cornelissen, P.L., Hancock, P.J.B., Kiviniemi, V., George, H.R. and Tovee, M.J. (2009) Patterns of eye-movements when Male and Female observers judge female attractiveness, body fat and waist-to-hip ratio. Evolution and Human Behaviour, 30, 417-428. </p>
<p>Two recent studies that used video clips of real women as opposed to line drawings found no role for WHR in multiple regressions. </p>
<p>Smith, K.L., Cornelissen, P.L. &amp; Tovée, M.J. (2007) Colour 3D Bodies and Judgements of Human Female Attractiveness. Evolution and Human Behaviour, 28, 48-54</p>
<p>J RILLING, T KAUFMAN, E SMITH, R PATEL, C WORTHMAN (2009). Abdominal depth and waist circumference as influential determinants of human female attractiveness. Evolution and Human Behavior, 30 (1), 21-31</p>
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		<title>By: Carl</title>
		<link>http://neuroanthropology.net/2010/05/12/attraction/#comment-12394</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Carl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2010 18:24:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neuroanthropology.net/?p=5207#comment-12394</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Not having read the studies in question I can&#039;t comment substantively, but shooting &#039;from the hip&#039; the hip-to-waist ratio analysis reported here looks like a classic reductionist just-so story, for at least two reasons. One, because it&#039;s leapt to without consideration of other possible explanations. For example, an incurved waist may simply create visual (or tactile, in the case of the blind) appeal by clearly demarcating zones of interest.

Two, because from a reproductive standpoint bigger is better, with no advantage to an incurve and quite a lot of advantage to capable musculature. So if that&#039;s what guys are keying on they should want to see big, thick, stompy, kickass women.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not having read the studies in question I can&#8217;t comment substantively, but shooting &#8216;from the hip&#8217; the hip-to-waist ratio analysis reported here looks like a classic reductionist just-so story, for at least two reasons. One, because it&#8217;s leapt to without consideration of other possible explanations. For example, an incurved waist may simply create visual (or tactile, in the case of the blind) appeal by clearly demarcating zones of interest.</p>
<p>Two, because from a reproductive standpoint bigger is better, with no advantage to an incurve and quite a lot of advantage to capable musculature. So if that&#8217;s what guys are keying on they should want to see big, thick, stompy, kickass women.</p>
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		<title>By: Todd</title>
		<link>http://neuroanthropology.net/2010/05/12/attraction/#comment-12091</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Todd]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 May 2010 04:36:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neuroanthropology.net/?p=5207#comment-12091</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, I often approach teaching in the same way, because the dichotomy is so deeply embedded in our consciousness, both through language (English) and the 2500 year symbolic history of the body/soul split since Sophocles/Plato. Yet, as I&#039;ve commented before here on Neuroanthropology, I still want to figure out a way to break through that language, and somehow introduce a whole new vocabulary. I&#039;ve been reading a bit in genetics, because geneticists, especially in their evolving theories of epigenetics, seem to be developing better language to talk about the reciprocity between bodies and environments. 

Hope I wasn&#039;t too hard in my comment for a student post. It was clearly an excellent example of student work.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I often approach teaching in the same way, because the dichotomy is so deeply embedded in our consciousness, both through language (English) and the 2500 year symbolic history of the body/soul split since Sophocles/Plato. Yet, as I&#8217;ve commented before here on Neuroanthropology, I still want to figure out a way to break through that language, and somehow introduce a whole new vocabulary. I&#8217;ve been reading a bit in genetics, because geneticists, especially in their evolving theories of epigenetics, seem to be developing better language to talk about the reciprocity between bodies and environments. </p>
<p>Hope I wasn&#8217;t too hard in my comment for a student post. It was clearly an excellent example of student work.</p>
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		<title>By: Sin &#38; Sex: Student Posts on Compulsion Spring 2010 &#171; Neuroanthropology</title>
		<link>http://neuroanthropology.net/2010/05/12/attraction/#comment-12070</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sin &#38; Sex: Student Posts on Compulsion Spring 2010 &#171; Neuroanthropology]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 May 2010 12:10:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neuroanthropology.net/?p=5207#comment-12070</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Attraction  [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Attraction  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: dlende</title>
		<link>http://neuroanthropology.net/2010/05/12/attraction/#comment-12061</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dlende]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 May 2010 10:54:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neuroanthropology.net/?p=5207#comment-12061</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great comment, Todd.  I agree that looking to actual behavior and experiences is important, indeed crucial, to understanding human sexuality.  Sometimes the appeals to cultural or biological causation completely miss what people actually do, in favor of an over-reaching theory.

I also have been uncomfortable and dissatisfied many times with how we talk about and think about these things.  I think we have a lot of work ahead of us to create more compelling ideas, explanation and bodies of data to get across how to better think about people.

That said, the culture/biology framing is one that most students already have in their heads.  Getting them to work from both sides is a pretty good option for now, because they can engage with research that is already there, see its limits, see how other explanations are relevant, and then hopefully move onto helping out with creating the sorts of language, ideas, and research that will forge a better synthesis.

Anyway, those are my two cents.  I might have a different two cents when I teach a straight-up integrated course, but that&#039;s how it played out this semester!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great comment, Todd.  I agree that looking to actual behavior and experiences is important, indeed crucial, to understanding human sexuality.  Sometimes the appeals to cultural or biological causation completely miss what people actually do, in favor of an over-reaching theory.</p>
<p>I also have been uncomfortable and dissatisfied many times with how we talk about and think about these things.  I think we have a lot of work ahead of us to create more compelling ideas, explanation and bodies of data to get across how to better think about people.</p>
<p>That said, the culture/biology framing is one that most students already have in their heads.  Getting them to work from both sides is a pretty good option for now, because they can engage with research that is already there, see its limits, see how other explanations are relevant, and then hopefully move onto helping out with creating the sorts of language, ideas, and research that will forge a better synthesis.</p>
<p>Anyway, those are my two cents.  I might have a different two cents when I teach a straight-up integrated course, but that&#8217;s how it played out this semester!</p>
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		<title>By: Todd</title>
		<link>http://neuroanthropology.net/2010/05/12/attraction/#comment-12051</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Todd]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 May 2010 19:21:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neuroanthropology.net/?p=5207#comment-12051</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Freese and Meland were responding to the Playboy study. It seems that above there are other studies at play that would need to be critiqued. I&#039;m not defending it, just sawing that Freese and Meland may not actually lay the entire field to rest, although they do offer a significant and important critique to the data of the playboy study.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Freese and Meland were responding to the Playboy study. It seems that above there are other studies at play that would need to be critiqued. I&#8217;m not defending it, just sawing that Freese and Meland may not actually lay the entire field to rest, although they do offer a significant and important critique to the data of the playboy study.</p>
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		<title>By: Todd</title>
		<link>http://neuroanthropology.net/2010/05/12/attraction/#comment-12050</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Todd]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 May 2010 19:19:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neuroanthropology.net/?p=5207#comment-12050</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I find it somewhat problematic to talk about &#039;cultural ideals&#039; in this way, given the extensive social science about how mass mediated images of bodies work in the actual meaning-making engaged in by consumers. Although fashion models look more or less like gaunt 19 year old boys with vaginas, and although the fasion industry has a kind of dominance in American culture (as well as others), this does not translate into a one-to-one assimilation of the mediated image into the &quot;ideal&quot; of particular individuals, communities, or nations. In addition to the fact that mass-mediated images are always contested and modified by their consumers (i.e., production of those images is always participatory at the consumption level), the actual behavior of people on the ground belies the inability of those mass-mediated images to dominate behavior on a large scale. 

The most common negative impact of mass-mediated images of women&#039;s bodies is in women themselves. But research about the effects of such images on women across the class and race spectrum reveals that only specific demographics absorb and adopt those images as normative (I&#039;ll give you one guess as to which demo that is), and others ignore them.  Indeed, a quick perusal of porn for straight men reveals a much more &quot;normal&quot; body range (although skewed to younger) and there is not a Twiggy in sight. 

I also find that I&#039;m getting caught on the subtextual nature/nurture issue dichotomy being repeated in this language, as if &quot;culture&quot; exists separate from our evolutionary/biological heritage. A more naturalistic philosophy—specifically that culture is constituted in &quot;nature&quot; and that nature is only apprehended culturally and that the two exist in a reciprocal, emergent tango—would be useful here. Culture doesn&#039;t trump or transform our biological heritage. It *is* our biological heritage. Conversely, our genes and evolutionary programs for reproduction don&#039;t trump culture. They are the base out of which culture emerges. Culture is best seen as a complex meaning-making process, an emergent phenomenon of human interaction in their umbworld, as they attempt to fit into, survive, and succeed within it.

To be honest, I&#039;m not quite sure how I would frame the above article differently, given a naturalistic understanding of cognition, culture, and &quot;nature&quot;, but I find that I&#039;m continually uncomfortable and dissatisfied with the way we talk about these things. I&#039;m a sociologist who researches culture, and the problem is even more stark in my discipline, with a complete refusal to allow for embodiment of human agents at all.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it somewhat problematic to talk about &#8216;cultural ideals&#8217; in this way, given the extensive social science about how mass mediated images of bodies work in the actual meaning-making engaged in by consumers. Although fashion models look more or less like gaunt 19 year old boys with vaginas, and although the fasion industry has a kind of dominance in American culture (as well as others), this does not translate into a one-to-one assimilation of the mediated image into the &#8220;ideal&#8221; of particular individuals, communities, or nations. In addition to the fact that mass-mediated images are always contested and modified by their consumers (i.e., production of those images is always participatory at the consumption level), the actual behavior of people on the ground belies the inability of those mass-mediated images to dominate behavior on a large scale. </p>
<p>The most common negative impact of mass-mediated images of women&#8217;s bodies is in women themselves. But research about the effects of such images on women across the class and race spectrum reveals that only specific demographics absorb and adopt those images as normative (I&#8217;ll give you one guess as to which demo that is), and others ignore them.  Indeed, a quick perusal of porn for straight men reveals a much more &#8220;normal&#8221; body range (although skewed to younger) and there is not a Twiggy in sight. </p>
<p>I also find that I&#8217;m getting caught on the subtextual nature/nurture issue dichotomy being repeated in this language, as if &#8220;culture&#8221; exists separate from our evolutionary/biological heritage. A more naturalistic philosophy—specifically that culture is constituted in &#8220;nature&#8221; and that nature is only apprehended culturally and that the two exist in a reciprocal, emergent tango—would be useful here. Culture doesn&#8217;t trump or transform our biological heritage. It *is* our biological heritage. Conversely, our genes and evolutionary programs for reproduction don&#8217;t trump culture. They are the base out of which culture emerges. Culture is best seen as a complex meaning-making process, an emergent phenomenon of human interaction in their umbworld, as they attempt to fit into, survive, and succeed within it.</p>
<p>To be honest, I&#8217;m not quite sure how I would frame the above article differently, given a naturalistic understanding of cognition, culture, and &#8220;nature&#8221;, but I find that I&#8217;m continually uncomfortable and dissatisfied with the way we talk about these things. I&#8217;m a sociologist who researches culture, and the problem is even more stark in my discipline, with a complete refusal to allow for embodiment of human agents at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Cosma Shalizi</title>
		<link>http://neuroanthropology.net/2010/05/12/attraction/#comment-12043</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cosma Shalizi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 May 2010 13:44:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neuroanthropology.net/?p=5207#comment-12043</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am surprised to see so much credence still being given to the magic waist-to-hips ratio after &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.jeremyfreese.com/docs/FreeseMeland%20-%20SevenTenthsIncorrect.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Freese and Meland&lt;/a&gt;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am surprised to see so much credence still being given to the magic waist-to-hips ratio after <a href="http://www.jeremyfreese.com/docs/FreeseMeland%20-%20SevenTenthsIncorrect.pdf" rel="nofollow">Freese and Meland</a>.</p>
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